Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

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Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

Postby mmesarch1 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:10 am

Hi,
I seem to have lost my ability to use the design view in Dreamweaver with the new template changes. This is particularly noticable in my subweb websites. ( I have a wdn folder at the same level of the subweb folders.) Here are two images of the same webpage in Design view of my Dreamweaver CS5. The first is with a WDN folder of the version prior to the changes rolled out on 7/1/2011. The second is a view of what happens when I change the WDN folder to the new design. I checked with Mark Hiatt and Brett Beiber they have no idea. Any Ideas?

TEMPLATE PRIOR to 7/1/2011

Image

TEMPLATE AFTER 7/1/2011
Image
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Re: Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

Postby tfenster2 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:19 am

I am having this same issue

I currently have Design Time set to http://www.unl.edu/wdn/templates_3.0/css/all.css but it is not loading the WYSIWYG view.

I'm using Dreamweaver CS3
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Re: Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

Postby jengebretson » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:32 am

I've been having the same trouble with the design view since July 1 and have talked to Trish and Mark trying to figure out any similarities that might cause this. My co-worker does not have this issue on her computer.

Also, since this morning, many of our tables have been disrupted, so our images and text are now misaligned for some reason. What's been changed, does anyone know?
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Re: Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

Postby bbieber2 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:09 pm

many of our tables have been disrupted, so our images and text are now misaligned for some reason. What's been changed, does anyone know?


Could you provide specific URLs to the pages with problems?
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Re: Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

Postby mmesarch1 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:57 am

The Table issue changed a little since it first happened yesterday. But it still a problem.

Try http://snr.unl.edu/data/geographygis/NebrGISwater.asp and http://snr.unl.edu/aboutus/who/people/f ... ectory.asp
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Re: Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

Postby kabel2 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:19 pm

Thanks for posting some example page mmesarch1. The UCOMM folks are aware of the issue and are coming up with a best solution. Some background on the issue:

  • The templates use a CSS "reset" stylesheet to attempt to remove all browser supplied CSS and return everything to blank/default w3c standards.
  • UCOMM updated the reset stylesheet to the latest version provided at http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/css/reset/ as it is found in many frameworks.
  • The reset sets the default "vertical-align" property of all table elements (table, caption, thead, tfoot, tbody, tr, th, td) to "baseline"
  • In most (if not all) browsers, if you set a "vertical-align" property in CSS, it will ignore the deprecated "valign" HTML4 attribute. This causes issues for people that still use the technically valid attribute to set vertical alignment.
  • "Baseline" vertical alignment does not look very attractive when images are used inside tables. Perhaps we need to establish a better default. The default in Firefox is middle (which was overridden).

If you are looking for a quick-fix, you may can add the following to your local CSS to establish a better default vertical alignment. I have added this to the template code repo, so it is currently being evaluated by the other contributors before it is rolled out as an official fix.
Code: Select all
thead, tfoot, tbody { vertical-align: middle; }
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Re: Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

Postby nbryan » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:02 pm

The templates use a CSS "reset" stylesheet . . . [that] sets the default "vertical-align" property of all table elements (table, caption, thead, tfoot, tbody, tr, th, td) to "baseline"
. . .
"Baseline" vertical alignment does not look very attractive when images are used inside tables. Perhaps we need to establish a better default. The default in Firefox is middle (which was overridden).

If you are looking for a quick-fix, you may can add the following to your local CSS to establish a better default vertical alignment. I have added this to the template code repo, so it is currently being evaluated by the other contributors before it is rolled out as an official fix.
Code: Select all
thead, tfoot, tbody { vertical-align: middle; }



The quick fix worked for me!
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Re: Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

Postby mmesarch1 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:52 pm

Quick fix did not work for our tables and I don't think it will work for complex tables with merged cells.....

How about the original question of this thread anyone-----Dreamweaver and Design View? :evil:
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Re: Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

Postby bbieber2 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:49 pm

How about the original question of this thread anyone-----Dreamweaver and Design View?


Eric and Kevin have looked into this issue and have determined that Dreamweaver cannot parse the font declarations and stops parsing the CSS file. We've re-arranged the source so that the font declarations are as late as possible to work around Dreamweaver's poor CSS parsing, and hopefully this will fix the issue.

If you could update your local wdn folder with the latest from the WDN website and report back if the issue has been resolved, that would be great.
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Re: Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

Postby mmesarch1 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:42 am

I tried the new WDN folder, I think. I pulled it this morning from our main site WDN folder on http://snr.unl.edu that is synched each night. It looks a little different but not correct yet.
Image
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Re: Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

Postby kabel2 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:09 pm

mmesarch1: Getting "Design-Time" view to work perfectly would be like trying to get the templates to render for some obscure, not-standard compliant, erroneous browser. Please keep in mind that Dreamweaver (as much as it would like to be) is NOT an internet browser. It does not follow the same "rules" for rendering content in its design view.

That said, the UCOMM staff has worked diligently to make sure what Dreamweaver "displays" is relatively similar to what the browser will render. Admittedly, the differences have been more than apparent in this iteration and the last. For example:
  • the "N" is in the wrong place
  • the headings are the wrong font/position
  • certain elements seem to float in the wrong place
  • the navigation never renders just right

All of these issues are simply, mostly un-fixable the way Dreamweaver renders its own templates. UCOMM staff has tried to accommodate the most important part of the page, the #maincontent. To that end, styles should (since the last zip update) reflect what they should be (minus a font issue).

More background on the remaining issues:
  • The entire body of the page has the wrong font:
    This is again an issue with the new reset.css that is common practice to use. All supported browsers are able to parse the CSS and rendered as expected. Dreamweaver's Design time cannot. I deem this a bug of Dreamweaver.
  • The breadcrumbs/navigation have no styles:
    The "Editable regions" of Dreamweaver are delineated with HTML comments. That means they work great for anyone, even if they don't have Dreamweaver to enforce their constrains. However, when Dreamweaver renders those comments in its Design view, it actually creates some kind of "invisible" element in the markup (<mmtinstance:editable>).
    This means that CSS 2.1 styles that "cross the boundaries" of an editable and non-editable region will not render. Ex:
    Code: Select all
    #navigation > ul > li { padding: 10px; }
    will not render in Dreamweaver because of the invisible child between #navigation and the first UL child. The navigation and breadcrumb CSS make extensive use of that kind of CSS selector, so they look like crap in Dreamweaver. I deem this another bug of Dreamweaver

UCOMM may continue to look at ways to improve the Design view experience, but until these Dreamweaver bugs are fixed by Adobe, we can only try to come up with buggy work-arounds that don't hurt the actual design. You, of course, are more than welcome to try and come up with your own "Design-time" stylesheets that will work best for you.

Please note: that Dreamweaver (at least in CS4+) has "Live View" that allows you to view your local copy inside Dreamweaver. That may also be a suitable solution.
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Re: Design View in DREAMWEAVER CS5 and 2011 Template Update

Postby kabel2 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:21 pm

Here's what I've been able to accomplish with some serious "Design-time" stylesheet overrides:

Screen shot 2011-07-26 at 5.18.59 PM.png
Screen shot 2011-07-26 at 5.18.59 PM.png (73.5 KiB) Viewed 1597 times
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